Time to come together - show your support

[Kate]

[Kate]

I got a letter from the Dept of Health via Lord Faulkner. This is what I thought of it:

[Kate]

This has just gone off to Lord Faulkner and a few others:

Quote:Hi Lord Faulkner.

Thanks very much for your letter to me dated 15th March and for passing on correspondence from the Department of Health.

Unfortunately the DH have refused to engage in discussion with me about this issue although I notice they say in their letter that they did. A record of communication from them to me is here and it shows that they refused to acknowledge or discuss my concerns.

It really is very helpful to read what the aim of the proposed ban on unlicensed nicotine products is and if you are interested, my current thoughts on the issue are here - http://www[dot]youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-rwGTK9U4

I am discussing the possibility of bringing a case on unfair competition to the Office of Fair Trading with some UK traders at the moment, they will be the main parties to suffer an economic loss if unlicensed nicotine is banned. Most current consumers will probably import unregulated products but unfortunately the number of people converting to safer, satisfying smoke alternatives, won't likely increase as much as it should and that will be a big loss for them in terms of mental and physical health as well as financially and socially.

There is a chance that a court case will be brought if commercial regulation of unlicensed nicotine products is removed and selling forbidden. I have my fingers crossed that the outcome of the MHRA consultation concludes that there is no medical use for nicotine and no need for health authorities to interfere with the commercial market over what is essentially a lifestyle choice/recreational drug.

If any legislation is required then I'm sure that electronic cigarette users would agree that something similar to the Intoxicating Substances (Supply) Act 1985 to protect young people from access to toxic and addictive substances would compliment already established commercial legislation..

Many thanks again Lord Faulkner, I appreciate your help.

All the best
Kate B***

[Kate]

nick0dean posted this over at allaboute-cigarettes:

Quote:In view of the impending ban, it is becoming increasingly important to make ourselves heard, so maybe this is worth `pinning` to the top of the General Forum?.

I have just finished emailling my M.P. (Andrew Lansley) about the proposed ban!

Anyone wishing to do the same can get their Member`s name & send an email by entering their postcode here :-[br]
http://findyourmp.parliament.uk/

There is so much factual info. on the forums, that it is quite easy to cobble-up a decent email, by copying/pasting & editing....without being a literary genius!

Nick.

This was the text of my email (with acknowlegement to Foxy for some of the content!).


Dear Mr Andrew Lansley,

As you are no doubt aware, there is a proposal to ban the importation & sale in the U.K. of Electronic Nicotine Inhalators
(commonly known as `Electronic Cigarettes`).

In my opinion, such a proposal requires a full public debate, which allows the users of these devices to have a full say & where fully-informed medical opinion can be sought & taken into consideration, before such a ban is considered.

I understand Petitions to the above effect are currently being prepared & trust that due consideration will be given to these.

Appended below, please find some information on these products, which may be of interest to yourself.

Information Concerning Electronic Nicotine Inhalators.

An 'e-cigarette' is an electronic device that vaporizes a mixture of liquid nicotine (as used in the Nicorette Inhalator), Glycerine (either propylene as used in smoke machines, or vegetable glycerine used in cookery mainly but also in soaps, toothpaste, mouthwash, cosmetic creams and as a delivery system for medication - (essentially it's an humectant) and food grade flavouring.

The e-cigarette/personal vaporizer/electronic nicotine inhalator, consists generally of three elements; a battery, an atomizer and a cartridge containing the liquid. Drawing on the mouthpiece activates a switch in the (automatic) battery that, in turn, activates the atomizer thus producing a vapour rather like that which one sees when breathing on a frosty day, or is produced by smoke machines at concerts, stage shows etc. To date this vapour has not been found to be harmful either to the user or by-standers - unlike the smoke produced by a tobacco cigarette.

The liquid used in e-cigarettes contains no noxious substances and NOTHING is lit or burned. Nicotine in its raw form is, of course, poisonous but that used in the device is highly diluted and is likely no more dangerous (in fact a good deal less so) than household cleaning products such as bleach or caustic drain cleaners.

The e-cigarette is not a 'cheap' option as the hardware needs replacing regularly but from my experience is less than half the cost of cigarettes.

Also from personal experience, the e-cigarette is much less likely to cause a nicotine overdose than smokers such as I who used patches etc., and smoked as well! Not something I'm proud of but that was just one more reason for stopping NRT. I needed to see and feel the smoke or, in the case of the e-cigarette, the vapour. The only difference between the electronic cigarette or EN-I is the atomizer that produces vapour. The NRT device releases a nicotine 'hit' each time the user sucks on the mouthpiece. That is where the comparison ends for me - the NRT inhalator tastes revolting and I was using it constantly during the day, changing cartridge after cartridge and still gaining no satisfaction.

I cannot understand why in the two years or so that the e-cigarette has been available in the UK, there have been no tests done that compare the smoke from a tobacco product with the vapour from an e-cigarette - the results would be interesting! Why do cigarette manufacturers not have to list the ingredients in their product or supply them in kiddy-proof containers. I've read that there is enough nicotine in one packet of twenty cigarettes to kill two adults if ingested in raw form.

Obviously the NHS aren't in a position to recommend a product that seems so disliked by those in power - my own GP however, would like to be able to do so.

Nicotine itself does not cause cancer; it is a combination of the (approximately 4,000) noxious substances in burning tobacco that is a major contributor to this.
`Electronic cigarettes` were developed in China, to eliminate these & thus benefit almost 2 billion tobacco-smokers in that country....which has NO National Health Service to alleviate the damage to public health caused by tobacco consumption!.

Yours sincerely,

http://allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.co...age=1#5551

[Totallyvapor]

Hi

Even though we are based in spain we fully support you on this matter and will do what ever we can to help. Just let us know.
Have already sent my concerns and comments to the MHRA and sent in my petition form

Go Vapers Go dont let them make us go back to tobacco smoking.

[Kate]

Hi Totally Vapor, thanks for joining us and thanks for your support


I got a message today from:

Edward McMillan-Scott MEP, Yorkshire & Humber, UK

Vice-President of the European Parliament

He's signed our petition, signature number 3926: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/s...cgi?vaping

[Kate]

ArenqueRojo;11416 Wrote:Here is my first post on this forum and a copy of my response to Amanda of the MHRA. Maybe we can win this one. Contacted MP. Waiting for response.


Gave up my pipe in less than a week
As a tobacco pipe smoker of over 55 years standing, I have made the break to smoking an e-pipe. The change took less than a week and is 100%.

Nicotine is the only chemical I use now
Self harm reduction must be achieved by eliminating all but one of the chemicals involved in conventional smoking.

I don't inflict my smoke on others anymore
Harm reduction must be achieved for those around me for the same reason and that the use of water rather than smoke particles makes it virtually impossible for a third person to be injured by my use of an inhaler.

I am in control of my drugs
For the first time in my life, I can have control over the quantity of the nicotine I am inhaling.

Now I can plan to give up even the nicotine
This self-control enables me to follow an achievable plan to eliminate nicotine altogether. Possibly by replacing the nicotine element with a food flavouring.
Such a plan for cessation will allow me to retain the comfort of the routine that has been part of my existence for 55 years but, finally, at zero further damage to my health.

And by saving myself money I save society money too
As a 70 year old pensioner, the cost of inhaling the same quantity of nicotine is 1/7th of the price of conventional smoking. This is important to me and allows me to further enhance my health with better eating and less stress. This reduces the burden I place upon society as I grow older.

We shouldn't be using ignorance as a basis for depriving people of products.
To say we don't know how pure the vapour liquid may be, is not an argument for banning it.
It is an argument for restricting it sale to those who can prove the provenance and purity. This could be done in a number of inexpensive ways (ie dyeing as with petrol) without the need for exorbitant licence fees

The burden of proof of harm rests with the MHRA
E-smoking, or vaping, has been in widespread use for three or more years. During this time, I have not heard of any suggestion that anyone has suffered any ailment that can be attributed to this activity.
I would consider it a proper use of agency funding to investigate any suggestions of damage to health and, if found to be real, should report back on the causes. An informed decision could then be taken as to any logical course of action.

To proclaim regulation which is unenforceable would be dishonest.
The use of inhalers would be very difficult to police. Someone using a "medicinal" inhaler (asthmatics etc.) may well have introduced nicotine into the device.
Someone appearing to be "smoking" an e-cigarette may well be using a zero nicotine juice flavoured with any one of hundreds of food flavourings.
To legislate for something that is impossible to police would be irresponsible.

To drive the activity underground is to invite accidents and promote bad practice.
The "technology" of the e-cigarette is very low. Nicotine extract may be obtained by boiling tobacco. Vapour can be created by almost any heat source of sufficient temperature. Thus the prohibition on the sale of inhalers and nicotine solutions would be undermined readily within the kitchen. Such action would encourage the use of amateur nicotine solutions and the devising of covert inhalers where the secrecy would take precedent over efficacy.


Don't force me to buy from China
Supplies of both equipment and liquids will always be available from other countries, like China. It would require a change in the law regarding personal imports and a massive investment in Border guards to effectively outlaw such imports.
For me, it would be easy to buy £100 worth of liquid (half litre) from China and I would have 5 years worth of nicotine! I wouldn't be certain of the % concentration but it would be roughly right. I couldn't be sure it was vegetable based food grade glycerine but I would have to risk that, and would.
I would much rather buy from one of the UK manufacturers who are well known and inspected by the Trading Standards officers whenever they feel appropriate.
The use of trading standards officers to monitor the few vendors and manufacturers would fatally tarnish the attraction of kitchen sink laboratories by making reputable supplies readily available and inexpensive.

Don't make me become a smoker again
Having made the break with my tobacco pipe, the last thing I want to happen now is to run out of the nicotine extract and not be able to get some more immediately. I know that I would just go to the nearest tobacconist and buy 50g of tobacco. All the effort would have been for nothing and I do not think I would run that risk a second time. I would just say that I was a smoker and get on with the rest of my life.

Don't put me in the hands of "big business" who won't listen until the complaints reach thousands per week.
The development of e-cigarettes, e-pipes and e-cigars is still in its infancy. It is an industry that cries out for improvement and innovation.
Whatever we do, we must not allow this embryonic industry, the most likely winner against tobacco, to become the preserve of the multi-national tobacco and pharmaceutical giants. At this stage in the growth, the SME is vital to the future of this field. As a consumer, I need to be able to communicate with my suppliers. More to the point, I need to be able to change if I don't like their product. Perhaps even more important, I want the suppliers to be so small that if they harm me or anyone else, they can be put out of business in a matter of days via the forums etc. This is real regulation that doesn't cost a fortune and acts very quickly indeed.

Don't make me deal with drug dealers
If the business of supplying e-liquids and e-smoking equipment is over-regulated and over-licensed, it may take a year or so for the large companies who can fund nearly £30,000 for an annual licence, to become established. During that interim, I either have to buy from China; go back to smoking; make my own nicotine or deal with the same type of person who would, today, sell me cannabis etc.


Patrick

http://ukvapers.com/showthread.php?p=11416#post11416

[Kate]

SubVap's MP raised this question in parliament yesterday for him:

Quote:

Electronic Cigarettes

Mr. Kemp: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he plans to bring forward proposals to regulate the sale of e-cigarettes; what progress has been made in the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency consultation exercise on e-cigarettes; and if he will make a statement. [325654]

Mr. Mike O'Brien: 'A smokefree future: a comprehensive tobacco control strategy for England', published on 1 February 2010, sets out the Government's strategy for tobacco control and this included proposals for changes to the regulation of products containing nicotine. The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) launched a full public consultation exercise alongside the publication of the strategy on whether and how to bring unlicensed nicotine containing products, such as electronic cigarettes, within the medicines licensing regime. Copies of the strategy and consultation document have been placed in the Library.

The consultation is ongoing until 4 May 2010 and the Government will take decisions about whether and how to regulate these products and timing once the consultation exercise has closed, responses to the consultation have been considered and risks and benefits of the options have been evaluated. The outcome of consultation will be published on the MHRA's website at:

http://www.mhra.gov.uk

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa...0762000287